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Influence That!

December 17, 2010 29 Comments
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There’s a lot of negativity around online influence tools at the minute. Things like Twitter Grader, Klout and similar are coming under fire, with common complaints being how is influence decided, what metrics are used, and does it even matter anyway.

Allyson Kapin came up with a great statement, about measuring impact as opposed to influence – show us real metrics of success from your actions as opposed to success with your interactions (big difference).

There’s no doubt influence can be beneficial – think of Ashton Kutcher getting his Twitter followers to buy a bunch of mosquito nets to fight malaria, for example.

Yet, as the second image from the left below (taken from the Klout homepage) shows, there’s still a ways to go on defining influence, and sums up perfectly why influence measurement tools are coming under fire.

Unless there’s a big market for vaginal influencers…

Does Klout influence matter

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Filed Under: Influence, Insights, Marketing, Social Media Tagged With:
About Danny

Danny Brown is Chief Technologist at ArCompany and an award-winning marketer and blogger. His blog is recognized as the #1 marketing blog in the world by HubSpot. Danny is also co-author of Influence Marketing: How to Create, Manage and Measure Brand Influencers in Social Media Marketing.

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Akram Benmbarek
Akram Benmbarek

Hello Danny,

Thanks for taking the time to check the Social IQ (http://socialiq.co). It is unfortunate that you had encountered that issue of seeing your score go down illogically. Our focus to deliver a solid metric has sadly been to the detrimant of usability and marketing. This will be fixed soon and I can explain what actually happens:

The main issue is the API limitation that comes mostly from Twitter.

- Your score is more likely to be higher than 523 since the basic information pulled through the public API of twitter has shown that.
- When you tried to validate your twitter account. Twitter sent us a blank token because we had exhausted the # of hourly calls to Twitter API. That blank token returns basically almost no info and therefore gives us a very low score. The error from our end is that we did not save the initial info, because it is supposed to be retreived again when you validate the account.
- When you added Facebook, we used that to compute your social IQ without taking into consideration your previous Twitter profile. That returned the Emcee score.

We found a way to overcome the API limitiation; and this situation will be fixed within the next 48 hours.

As to our Social IQ algorithm, just like what Linlin mentioned, our approach to measuring Social Influence is a bit different from the sense that our basic premises are relying on more explicit principles. I hope we'll get a chance to discuss them further some time soon.

Akram Benmbarek
Akram Benmbarek

Hello Danny,

Thanks for taking the time to check the Social IQ (http://socialiq.co). It is unfortunate that you had encountered that issue of seeing your score go down illogically. Our focus to deliver a solid metric has sadly been to the detrimant of usability and marketing. This will be fixed soon and I can explain what actually happens:

The main issue is the API limitation that comes mostly from Twitter.

- Your score is more likely to be higher than 523 since the basic information pulled through the public API of twitter has shown that.
- When you tried to validate your twitter account. Twitter sent us a blank token because we had exhausted the # of hourly calls to Twitter API. That blank token returns basically almost no info and therefore gives us a very low score. The error from our end is that we did not save the initial info, because it is supposed to be retreived again when you validate the account.
- When you added Facebook, we used that to compute your social IQ without taking into consideration your previous Twitter profile. That returned the Emcee score.

We found a way to overcome the API limitiation; and this situation will be fixed within the next 48 hours.

As to our Social IQ algorithm, just like what Linlin mentioned, our approach to measuring Social Influence is a bit different from the sense that our basic premises are relying on more explicit principles. I hope we'll get a chance to discuss them further some time soon.

Akram Benmbarek
Akram Benmbarek

Hello Danny, Thanks for taking the time to check the Social IQ (http://socialiq.co). It is unfortunate that you had encountered that issue of seeing your score go down illogically. Our focus to deliver a solid metric has sadly been to the detrimant of usability and marketing. This will be fixed soon and I can explain what actually happens: The main issue is the API limitation that comes mostly from Twitter. - Your score is more likely to be higher than 523 since the basic information pulled through the public API of twitter has shown that. - When you tried to validate your twitter account. Twitter sent us a blank token because we had exhausted the # of hourly calls to Twitter API. That blank token returns basically almost no info and therefore gives us a very low score. The error from our end is that we did not save the initial info, because it is supposed to be retreived again when you validate the account. - When you added Facebook, we used that to compute your social IQ without taking into consideration your previous Twitter profile. That returned the Emcee score. We found a way to overcome the API limitiation; and this situation will be fixed within the next 48 hours. As to our Social IQ algorithm, just like what Linlin mentioned, our approach to measuring Social Influence is a bit different from the sense that our basic premises are relying on more explicit principles. I hope we'll get a chance to discuss them further some time soon.

Linlin Wills
Linlin Wills

Hi Danny,

Great points!

Klout's black-box algorithm makes the "score" or "rating" seem arbitrary. After all, there are no theory or basis for the Klout score to drive upon. It is more convincing or compelling that something in this analytical juncture has a science of sociological root.

I am the Marketing Executive writing for Soovox. We just launched a Social Influence Measurement tool ( Http://SocialIQ.co/) at SXSW 2011. We are a late comer with a totally different approach than Klout. We are definitely not gleeful about the criticism that Klout has gotten.

Soovox's Social IQ score draws upon Malcolm Gladwell's Tipping Point Concepts (Online Mavens, Online Connectors, Sales Person). The weighting of each attribute in the algorithm has its sociological reference.

Perhaps, check out Http://SocialIQ.co/ and Soovox.com

Linlin

Danny
Danny

Hi Linlin,

Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts, especially since you're coming from within that space. I can see what Klout (and others) are trying to do, but I'm just not sold on the analysis of human emotion without being with that person at that given time.

Checked SocialIQ out - interesting tool. But curious how the full algorithm is worked out?

For example, I input just my Twitter name and it came back with 523 "Culture Force" and 52% "Trust Score":

http://socialiq.co/DannyBrown

Yet, when I verify credentials with Twitter, it blanks the results and advises me I'm a "Newbie"?

Take that to Facebook, and I become an Emcee with a score of 171, 32 Connections score and 126 Authority score.

Then I add LinkedIn and nothing happens - the results stay the same.

It seems kinda confusing, but I'm guessing that's because it's still in beta mode?

Cheers, and look forward to finding out more about your algorithms.

Linlin Wills
Linlin Wills

Hi Danny,

Great points!

Klout's black-box algorithm makes the "score" or "rating" seem arbitrary. After all, there are no theory or basis for the Klout score to drive upon. It is more convincing or compelling that something in this analytical juncture has a science of sociological root.

I am the Marketing Executive writing for Soovox. We just launched a Social Influence Measurement tool ( Http://SocialIQ.co/) at SXSW 2011. We are a late comer with a totally different approach than Klout. We are definitely not gleeful about the criticism that Klout has gotten.

Soovox's Social IQ score draws upon Malcolm Gladwell's Tipping Point Concepts (Online Mavens, Online Connectors, Sales Person). The weighting of each attribute in the algorithm has its sociological reference.

Perhaps, check out Http://SocialIQ.co/ and Soovox.com

Linlin

Linlin Wills
Linlin Wills

Hi Danny, Great points! Klout's black-box algorithm makes the "score" or "rating" seem arbitrary. After all, there are no theory or basis for the Klout score to drive upon. It is more convincing or compelling that something in this analytical juncture has a science of sociological root. I am the Marketing Executive writing for Soovox. We just launched a Social Influence Measurement tool ( Http://SocialIQ.co/) at SXSW 2011. We are a late comer with a totally different approach than Klout. We are definitely not gleeful about the criticism that Klout has gotten. Soovox's Social IQ score draws upon Malcolm Gladwell's Tipping Point Concepts (Online Mavens, Online Connectors, Sales Person). The weighting of each attribute in the algorithm has its sociological reference. Perhaps, check out Http://SocialIQ.co/ and Soovox.com Linlin

Danny
Danny

Hi Linlin, Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts, especially since you're coming from within that space. I can see what Klout (and others) are trying to do, but I'm just not sold on the analysis of human emotion without being with that person at that given time. Checked SocialIQ out - interesting tool. But curious how the full algorithm is worked out? For example, I input just my Twitter name and it came back with 523 "Culture Force" and 52% "Trust Score": http://socialiq.co/DannyBrown Yet, when I verify credentials with Twitter, it blanks the results and advises me I'm a "Newbie"? Take that to Facebook, and I become an Emcee with a score of 171, 32 Connections score and 126 Authority score. Then I add LinkedIn and nothing happens - the results stay the same. It seems kinda confusing, but I'm guessing that's because it's still in beta mode? Cheers, and look forward to finding out more about your algorithms.

jeffespo
jeffespo like.author.displayName 1 Like

DB - I have been delayed in my reading of this and love it as it was the point of conversation in a Facebook group I am in. I am still saddened that the lady 2 from the left's Twitter account has been deleted. I think the podcast that @geoffliving is going to be really good and eye-opening.

jeffespo
jeffespo

DB - I have been delayed in my reading of this and love it as it was the point of conversation in a Facebook group I am in. I am still saddened that the lady 2 from the left's Twitter account has been deleted. I think the podcast that @geoffliving is going to be really good and eye-opening.

DannyBrown
DannyBrown

@jeffespo @geoffliving Yep, looking forward to downloading and listening to, should be an interesting listen. :)

JoeFernandez
JoeFernandez like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Hey Danny,

I am one of the founders and the CEO here at Klout. Those names showing up on our front page was definitely embarrassing for us. We are making big changes here at Klout and know there is a long way to go. Our team loves the challenge though and we look forward to continuing towards our goal of bring accurate and useful influence metrics to the world.

Happy to chat anytime about what we are working on here.

Thanks,
Joe

Danny Brown
Danny Brown moderator like.author.displayName 1 Like

@JoeFernandez Hey there Joe,

As I mentioned to Geoff, it's been great to see how you guys have been responding to questions about the service - more could learn from you on that front.

Looking forward to hearing your podcast with Geoff, and how you see Klout moving forward and addressing (if and where needed) the questions currently being asked about Klout and others.

Cheers again for dropping by, sir.

JoeFernandez
JoeFernandez

Hey Danny, I am one of the founders and the CEO here at Klout. Those names showing up on our front page was definitely embarrassing for us. We are making big changes here at Klout and know there is a long way to go. Our team loves the challenge though and we look forward to continuing towards our goal of bring accurate and useful influence metrics to the world. Happy to chat anytime about what we are working on here. Thanks, Joe

DannyBrown
DannyBrown

@JoeFernandez Hey there Joe, As I mentioned to Geoff, it's been great to see how you guys have been responding to questions about the service - more could learn from you on that front. Looking forward to hearing your podcast with Geoff, and how you see Klout moving forward and addressing (if and where needed) the questions currently being asked about Klout and others. Cheers again for dropping by, sir.

mikecassidyAZ
mikecassidyAZ like.author.displayName 1 Like

If we only remain focused on the score (any score) we can lose sight of the game. Winners glance at the scoreboard as they are leaving the field not from the bench. I'd much rather be known as an action leader than a "thought leader". If everyone is influencing, then who's getting the work done? Great post Danny, it hit home on many levels. Thank you.

Danny Brown
Danny Brown moderator

@mikecassidyAZ "An action leader" - I like it, Mike, may have to borrow that for future posts :)

That's the thing with a lot of tools based around numbers (or that use numbers as a part of the equation) - they're usually taken as the main reference point and, as you say, that doesn't always tell the full story. And that can often lead to big disappointments further down the line...

mikecassidyAZ
mikecassidyAZ

If we only remain focused on the score (any score) we can lose sight of the game. Winners glance at the scoreboard as they are leaving the field not from the bench. I'd much rather be known as an action leader than a "thought leader". If everyone is influencing, then who's getting the work done? Great post Danny, it hit home on many levels. Thank you.

DannyBrown
DannyBrown

@mikecassidyAZ "An action leader" - I like it, Mike, may have to borrow that for future posts :) That's the thing with a lot of tools based around numbers (or that use numbers as a part of the equation) - they're usually taken as the main reference point and, as you say, that doesn't always tell the full story. And that can often lead to big disappointments further down the line...

Ari Herzog
Ari Herzog

How many people choose to follow Ashton Kutcher on Twitter because they view him as influential vs being a celebrity they want to follow? Key difference.

Danny Brown
Danny Brown moderator

@Ari Herzog Oh, obviously for the celebrity factor, Ari. But it took his influence to get those mosquito nets.

ariherzog
ariherzog

How many people choose to follow Ashton Kutcher on Twitter because they view him as influential vs being a celebrity they want to follow? Key difference.

DannyBrown
DannyBrown

@ariherzog Oh, obviously for the celebrity factor, Ari. But it took his influence to get those mosquito nets.

debmorello
debmorello like.author.displayName 1 Like

Excellent as always Danny. I got into a convo on Twitter a few times now about this issue. It sure can be frustrating because it becomes circular and more like shadow boxing. Some folks say it measures "activity" and therefore doesn't matter if it is Osama Bin Laden, our ladies of the night, or what have you... the tools do not determine "quality" - mmm, IMO it's unfortunate that the word "influence " was ever chosen as a way to define "activity" because there are an awful lot of places these days highlighting "top influencers" -

Adrian
Adrian like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Danny Brown @debmorello This, I feel, is the crux of the problem. Just because you CAN measure something doesn't mean there's necessarily any value in doing so.

Danny Brown
Danny Brown moderator

@debmorello That's another "problem", Deb - when the amount of activity counts, then automated accounts that just scrape in content will have a huge amount of "influence". But what does it actually offer from a value point of view?

debmorello
debmorello

Excellent as always Danny. I got into a convo on Twitter a few times now about this issue. It sure can be frustrating because it becomes circular and more like shadow boxing. Some folks say it measures "activity" and therefore doesn't matter if it is Osama Bin Laden, our ladies of the night, or what have you... the tools do not determine "quality" - mmm, IMO it's unfortunate that the word "influence " was ever chosen as a way to define "activity" because there are an awful lot of places these days highlighting "top influencers" -

Adrian
Adrian

@DannyBrown @debmorello This, I feel, is the crux of the problem. Just because you CAN measure something doesn't mean there's necessarily any value in doing so.

DannyBrown
DannyBrown

@debmorello That's another "problem", Deb - when the amount of activity counts, then automated accounts that just scrape in content will have a huge amount of "influence". But what does it actually offer from a value point of view?

Adrian
Adrian like.author.displayName 1 Like

Where other companies would hide their bad ideas, working diligently to wipe them from the public record, Klout plasters their mistakes on their front page. You gotta admire the boldness.

Adrian
Adrian like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@geoffliving My question, Geoff, is why it took your email for them to notice it? The home page has been a steady stream of oddball results for some time now. Is no one watching the ball over there?

geoffliving
geoffliving like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Adrian I actualy forwarded the image to Joe Fernandez, Klout's CEO. Needless to say they became aware of the situation and were pretty upset by it themselves.

It's an algorithm right, and 8 month old algorithm, and the solution has flaws. The CEO knows this and is answering questions about criticsm on Tuesday... Here are the details; any of you can call this guy and ask him your question:

http://geoffliving.posterous.com/klout-ceo-to-answer-questions-on-tuesday

Adrian
Adrian

@Danny Brown I think the "clients" left a long time ago. It's just them and their last remaining investor. Haha

Danny Brown
Danny Brown moderator

@Adrian It's a fine line between boldness and putting potential clients off... ;-)

Adrian
Adrian

Where other companies would hide their bad ideas, working diligently to wipe them from the public record, Klout plasters their mistakes on their front page. You gotta admire the boldness.

Adrian
Adrian

@geoffliving My question, Geoff, is why it took your email for them to notice it? The home page has been a steady stream of oddball results for some time now. Is no one watching the ball over there?

geoffliving
geoffliving

@Adrian I actualy forwarded the image to Joe Fernandez, Klout's CEO. Needless to say they became aware of the situation and were pretty upset by it themselves. It's an algorithm right, and 8 month old algorithm, and the solution has flaws. The CEO knows this and is answering questions about criticsm on Tuesday... Here are the details; any of you can call this guy and ask him your question: http://geoffliving.posterous.com/klout-ceo-to-answer-questions-on-tuesday

Adrian
Adrian

@DannyBrown I think the "clients" left a long time ago. It's just them and their last remaining investor. Haha

DannyBrown
DannyBrown

@Adrian It's a fine line between boldness and putting potential clients off... ;-)

Griddy
Griddy like.author.displayName 1 Like

Damn it! I don't think nittyGriddyBlog is gonna' cut it then.

Oh well, I guess I will never be up to the standards of influencers such as these good madams. I only hope I one day have something as insightful to share as Ms. 67 Klout over there lol ;).

I believe A. Kapin said it best. But in some distorted way, I also think that Ms. 67 is showing us just that ha!

In all seriousness though - nicely put Danny. A good eye-opener towards influence metrics and other measurement tools.

I started a post about Klout a few weeks back and its been sitting in Drafts ever since. Maybe now is a good time to finish it will all these controversies going around.

Thanks for sharing this.

Cheers

Danny Brown
Danny Brown moderator like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Griddy Ha, Ingrid, my dear, you're paving your own unique kind of influence :)

Keep doing what you do, and you'll be left asking "Klout who?" :)

Griddy
Griddy

Damn it! I don't think nittyGriddyBlog is gonna' cut it then. Oh well, I guess I will never be up to the standards of influencers such as these good madams. I only hope I one day have something as insightful to share as Ms. 67 Klout over there lol ;). I believe A. Kapin said it best. But in some distorted way, I also think that Ms. 67 is showing us just that ha! In all seriousness though - nicely put Danny. A good eye-opener towards influence metrics and other measurement tools. I started a post about Klout a few weeks back and its been sitting in Drafts ever since. Maybe now is a good time to finish it will all these controversies going around. Thanks for sharing this. Cheers

DannyBrown
DannyBrown

@Griddy Ha, Ingrid, my dear, you're paving your own unique kind of influence :) Keep doing what you do, and you'll be left asking "Klout who?" :)

JMattHicks
JMattHicks

I've been staring at this comment box trying to figure out what to say, and all I keep coming up with is "LOL". So, yeah, LOL.

Sushi
Sushi like.author.displayName 1 Like

So all I need for a high Klout score is a profane username and an appealing userpic? Sweet, I'll get on that. ;)

Sushi
Sushi

So all I need for a high Klout score is a profane username and an appealing userpic? Sweet, I'll get on that. ;)

Trackbacks

  1. 32 Brilliant Bloggers Talk About Klout — BlogWorld Expo Blog says:
    February 24, 2011 at 7:32 am

    [...] Influence That! by Danny Brown (@dannybrown) [...]

  2. Enough With The Opt-Out Bullshit, Klout says:
    August 25, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    [...] influence (although I’ll be the first to admit I’m not a fan of that approach for a number of [...]

  3. imSocial – Enough With The Opt-Out Bullshit, Klout says:
    August 25, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    [...] Klout sucks. Not because of what they’re trying to do, in measuring your online influence (although I’ll be the first to admit I’m not a fan of that approach for a number of reasons). [...]


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