Why the A-List Conversation Hurts Us

I have recently read somewhere, maybe it was a blog post or something, about how those A-listers are only A-listers for a handful of bloggers. And that is true. Who, outside of this small circle of blogs we all live in, knows about those people!?

I found it very interesting to learn that I am doing great according to your 5 point list. I am not linking to them, following them or talking about them. Honestly, I learn so much more somewhere else.

I respect their success and wish the same for all of us, but a lot of beginners (and unfortunately those who aren't so green) tend to look at what the A-listers do and try to copy everything.

You end up with lousy blogs that fail pretty fast.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I completely agree with you, Goeff.

I understand most of the comments here. But I also know of some people that are against your opinion here, that base their commenting habits by "I can attach a comluv link and get a dofollow link" compared to "I will not comment on Disqus blogs". Those are the people that will always "defend" A-listers no matter what they do, because that is what they read on their blogs "You must comment like crazy and get links from dofollow blogs".

Seriously????

Anyway, Danny is far better than what most of see as A-listers. He is a list of his own and a genuine person above all!

I'm a bit late to the party and thanks so much for the link, Geoff. I think your comment on my post was so spot on about it being two schools rather than two classes. A-list is probably an incorrect term as folks like you, Gini and Danny are already there. Seems to be that at one point everyone was walking and talking the talk. Now there are those that are talking it and those that still
manage to do both...

It is coming down to a matter of those who care about the klout they have vs. those that just have it...

I still think it is a matter of being a little lost rather than doing something wrong or bad and leave a little bit of hope that there is still room for those who care about all the status to come down to earth a little bit... (read: a lot a bit...)

Great post, Geoff and bang on. It's interesting to find out how "a-list" someone is when you're in a packed restaurant of real people and ask if anyone has heard of ________. Sad to say, the response isn't so favorable. We live in a digital bubble, we need to help companies and organizations. We need to point our focus on making a difference not another point on the Klout tote board.

It really has nothing to do with numbers and I often wonder what the social web would be like without all the stupid counters.

Let's get out of our thimble and join the rest of the humans.

Since I'm going to take an alternative view here I'm glad it's not Danny that wrote this post.

I think what you wrote here is a knee jerk reaction to the issue. So people stop linking to and talking to and talking about the folks now considered A-listers. Who do they then designate as the next person they follow, and then what happens if that person becomes the next A-lister, stop following them as well?

It sounds like ultimate hate for A-listers, and it reminds me of an interesting debate I've been having lately with someone else regarding the concepts of wealth and why some people are vilified just because they happened to have figured out how to be wealthy.

Frankly, I don't like this direction. At least have a good reason to hate someone that might be an A-lister. For what it's worth, the guy whose blog this was posted on is considered an A-lister by a lot of people (though Danny would want to defer from that); do we stop following Danny because someone has decided to put him on that pedestal?

It may seem strange that someone like me would take this position after writing the article that I'm linking to here through CommentLuv but the reasons are much different and the outcomes wished for are different as well. If people really hate A-listers just because someone called them that, then they're going to do everything they can do to avoid ever becoming an A-lister. If that's the case then you might as well stop writing your blog now if you have one because no one ever wants to become what they don't like. Luckily, in this case I have no such qualms.

G'Day Geoff,
I've been writing for about 50 years. I never go to "Writers Weeks" or "Writers Festivals." It's not that I don't think that I could learn anything. I'm sure I could.

But I couldn't cope with all that overbearing intensity of writers and would-be writers discussing writing as if it talking about it would make you better at it. You learn to write by writing.

I'm a relative newbie in the so-called blogosphere. But I detect some of the same wheel spinning and navel gazing might, just might be evident here.

Being read by 1,000,000 people is an extraordinaily exciting prospect. But if none of them are in my target market, that's all it is.

"You like A-list and I like A-list" But, as the old song says, maybe it's time to "call the whole thing off"

Make sure you have fun

Regards

Leon

Geoff,
Some nice points here.
Just one quibble, particularly with someone pimping his writing: "eliteness"?

The actual English word is "elitism".

GEoff,

It's funny because I was thinking of writing a post on nearly the same subject. These days I rarely read the blogs of the so-called "a-list" because I find that it is really hard to develop relationships with them. I also love that new bloggers com to the table with fresh ideas and as a result I've embraced something Stan Smith at Pushing Social said "kiss lots of digital babies." Many of the a-list blogs these days are not even written by the person who started the blog, so the value has diminished in my opinion.

Yes!!!

I follow those five tips when I don't think a person, whether he/she is an A-lister or not, deserves the publicity.

I do think that some A-listers can post whatever they want, and people will blindly push it to their social networking sites. Perfect example: Last week, I saw one post the exact post as another publication that had published it in January, and it had 1,000 tweets.

I want to shake some people and yell: "Wake up!" However, I know that I can only control my actions, and I tend to not pay them any mind.

Hey Geoff - most excellent post sir...

#5 sums it up perfectly; don't waste time, do meaningful things.

The popularity contest should have ended in high school, but seems to rage on social web.

From a professional (business, marketing, PR) standpoint - IMPACT and getting things done for your business, clients and/or the world we live should be the focus.

Moving people, moving the economy, providing solutions and doing things that benefit the community is what matters.

Numbers and popularity don't necessarily equate to being productive.

If your time is not accomplishing worthwhile things for your family, for others or your future - you should re-evaluate your the investment of time or strategy you invest online.

Cheers to thoughtful this post :)

Why I love this post is because it helps me define what A-List means to me. I know who they are in my backyard, and those peeps are not all Ad Age Power brokers.

When one of us aspires to be an A-Lister, it comes with hidden responsibilities. When you're a leader, you need to engage elsewhere than just your blog comments; you need to thank the tweeps who RT you; respond to their tweets, FBs and invitations to read their posts.

Being an A-Lister requires respect for the community you've built and the community who enables you.

At the end of the day, Geoff, what you say is spot on. There are peeps putting out thoughtful content who get no formal recognition, and perhaps their business goals do not intentionally conform to monetization.

We already know which A-Listers make time to remember and care about their community; and we know when arrogance begins to replace that nurturing.

Your post was very thought provoking. Just because you don't have a "name" doesn't mean you lack a voice. Keep talking!

I think there is some things to learn from A-listers. Not all of them but the ones within your specific niche. You aren't doing the world a favor if you try to be them. All you can be is yourself.

Great post!!!thanks for the tips about stop supporting A listers, when i see this blog it made me stop and read it.This is mindful and good in its own right. Rather than fighting,i suggest and make an effort to influence people to work for it.Invests time and gives influence to people who can’t accomplish things.
thanks!

What? I used to be an expert dog and now I can't even be an A-lister any more? Whatever will I do with my twitter profile? :-) In response to AdAge turning me down for the Power150, I made my own club: The Pawer150, did up a badge and everything with my blog as #1.

And naturally, when you link text like "the dog that barks the loudest" to something, I am going to click on it. Anyone who can do a Great Gatsby metaphor on social media with the ease at which you did it has all the influence I'll ever need. Bravo. Go liberal arts education!

Just one itty bitty point: I find it amusing when A-listers -- having found an audience that will follow them to the ends of the Earth on blogging, social media, blah, blah whatever -- start digging into industries they know nothing about (such as retail, fashion, "real" marketing, research) get clobbered by the true experts who may not blog or tweet. There is a perception among the bubble crowd that these real experts are fumbling around trying to make sense of their own industry when the A-listers have all the answers. While there are people working in these industries who are clueless, the majority are not. They know how to steer change at the right speed and the right direction.

I made this point ever so casually in a comment on Margie Clayman's blog last week (good read.) Everything is easy until you are the guy whose butt is on the line for results.

The A-Lister conversation seems to be an issue with people that want to be on the list but aren't. They may say they don't want to be or don't care but then why are they concerned about it? Influence gets mixed with this term and makes that a bad word. Things like Klout and others are mainly interesting to people because it gives them a score to judge themselves against others. It is an ego yard stick. It is rarely being used today in a context or in a way that helps them achieve an actual objective.

Everyone has had a conversation about which actors are A listers verse B listers. No one really cared too much because most people could not be on the list. Now people have a voice and can create that position for themselves with social media. If they really have an issue with A-listers they should get busy putting in the work to show that they provide more value than the people on the "A-list". The people on the list that most take issue with are the ones that are there because they have figured out how to garner the attention from lots of people not necessarily because they have the best things to say.

If people can't deal with that they should get to work on the 5 step program listed above. Nice post.

Geoff,
Hi there. I want to understand... first of all, what, exactly "is" the A List? I thought it was my A List or Gini's A List or Kaarina's A List.

I'm only 5 months into this WHOLE new world, but.. did I miss some golden A List? (I'm going to have to Google it, you know!)

However, if I am right and it is "my" or "your" A List, you are wrong to make such a broad statement. The folks 95% of the ones I found 4-5 months ago, they have welcomed me, guided me, supported me and CORRECTED me.

When I've needed help, at least 2-3 answer within the hour, maybe a couple more over the next day. Not always the same ones, either. "Let me take a look" "Have you tried this?" Do you want to Skype?" "How is Bella? Better, now?" "When do you leave?"

This is what they have taught me. Tell me who you really are. Be honest, be kind and above all, be generous and helpful. They have taught me that there is a massive world out there (here)

They do a lot, for a lot of people. ~Amber-Lee

This whole conversation gives me the dizzies, really. But I had a related interesting conversation last week that is relevant here.

I wrote a post on my blog lamenting that a lot of the folks on the perceived A-list spend a lot of time lamenting how crappy they have it online. A lot of people, when they talk to each other on Twitter, get a real air of "Ugh, gah, those people. Beh, meh, ick, ew." You always get the feeling that they might be talking about you. It's like when you're at a party and someone standing near says, "Oh, what's that smell?" You're bound to check your armpits, ya know? :)

Someone commented (and we also discussed it on Twitter) that there's no such thing as an A-lister. It's a false categorization of people. That's the way it *should* be, but I'm not sure that's true.

However, and here's where Social Media becomes an MC Escher print, folks who constantly lament and lambaste perceived A-listers are just as bad. If you spend a lot of time on Twitter or on your blog saying, "Ick, ew, a-listers," then you're doing the exact same thing.

What I'd really like to see are 2 things, and they are somewhat related to your five points.

1) If you have a lot of followers, subscribers, fans, whatever - use it for good. Don't complain about the imbecilic masses. Don't clique it up and only promote posts your friends have written. Make a concerted effort to introduce new people to all of those thousands of followers you have. I meet so many people every day who are on the verge of quitting this whole online thing because they just can't seem to break through. Help them out (to your point of being productive).

2) Rather than pay attention to who might have more "weight," make sure you are doing your best to positively influence others. And by influence, I mean "make a difference for."

It's true that a lot of people on those Ad Age lists or whatever aren't living up to
my goal #1, but a lot of other folks aren't striving for my goal #2.

In the end, i'd love to see less negativity, less holier than thou rhetoric from EVERYONE in the online world. If you have time to tweet about how bad your life is, your life probably isn't all that bad. Accentuate the positive, folks.

It's really interesting, Geoff, that I'm reading this on the very day I was considering a blog post, along the lines of:

"Is it what you write, or is it who writes it?"

As I wander around reading blog posts, there is no doubt that there's a synchronicity of thoughts and topics swirling around, with many posts well written, with similar points of view, or topics that you might say: "Oh my gosh, I was thinking/writing about the exact same thing!"

What makes one post get the adulation of many, whereas another, with very similar content, excellent writing and solid info is a lone voice in the dark?

Is it because we're drawn only to those with a "name" and reputation? Are we really that blinded by the "A-list" moniker, and too afraid to say the emperor is wearing no clothes?

I love to read and interact with people who write well, give of themselves in words and content and take the time to respond thoughtfully.

I like your post! It bodes well (at least for me) to search out and find those who may be given the moniker of "A List" but who remain humble, with feet planted firmly on the ground. I don't want to read someone because they are "A list" (and I love your "words that need to be taken out back and shot like old yeller"...so good!) I want to read someone because they write compellingly, stimulate my thinking, challenge my perspective and inform, entertain and/or amuse (or all of the above!)

Thanks for articulating what many of us probably think, especially when one is new to the game. Do I read it because of what is written, or do I read it because of who wrote it? Not necessarily mutually exclusive, but if I'm reading it to be part of the cool in-crowd, and commenting because I think it makes me part of the cool kids crowd...well, I'll take a pass. Cheers! Kaarina

Ah, yes. Actions speak louder than words, for both the A-lister, those who can truly affect change, and those who follow either, good argument. The problem with the dissent of silence though - it only works if the majority spends their attention appropriately.

Still, I am 90% in agreement with this - the popular who are mistaken for influential only have power via that popularity. And the only way to take it is to look elsewhere, hence making them unpopular.

The 10% shift I have is remaining silent when something unjust has taken place. Haven't gained the strength to silently ignore things I think are bullshit. Yet.

I have recently read somewhere, maybe it was a blog post or something, about how those A-listers are only A-listers for a handful of bloggers. And that is true. Who, outside of this small circle of blogs we all live in, knows about those people!?

I found it very interesting to learn that I am doing great according to your 5 point list. I am not linking to them, following them or talking about them. Honestly, I learn so much more somewhere else.

I respect their success and wish the same for all of us, but a lot of beginners (and unfortunately those who aren't so green) tend to look at what the A-listers do and try to copy everything.

You end up with lousy blogs that fail pretty fast.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I completely agree with you, Goeff.

I understand most of the comments here. But I also know of some people that are against your opinion here, that base their commenting habits by "I can attach a comluv link and get a dofollow link" compared to "I will not comment on Disqus blogs". Those are the people that will always "defend" A-listers no matter what they do, because that is what they read on their blogs "You must comment like crazy and get links from dofollow blogs".

Seriously????

Anyway, Danny is far better than what most of see as A-listers. He is a list of his own and a genuine person above all!

I'm a bit late to the party and thanks so much for the link, Geoff. I think your comment on my post was so spot on about it being two schools rather than two classes. A-list is probably an incorrect term as folks like you, Gini and Danny are already there. Seems to be that at one point everyone was walking and talking the talk. Now there are those that are talking it and those that still
manage to do both...

It is coming down to a matter of those who care about the klout they have vs. those that just have it...

I still think it is a matter of being a little lost rather than doing something wrong or bad and leave a little bit of hope that there is still room for those who care about all the status to come down to earth a little bit... (read: a lot a bit...)

People will always pander to A-listers. There is no easier way to get mileage from a blog post than to mention a handful of high follow count people and then let them spread it for you. It's essentially using marketers to do the marketing for you.

The result is a spike in followers and perhaps a rank up in social popularity. It's a great way for Z-listers to run perhaps as high as the B-list.

But then again, what do I know?

Remaining relevant for bloggers is a serious challenge, and I sense some may not realize that yet.

Great post, Geoff and bang on. It's interesting to find out how "a-list" someone is when you're in a packed restaurant of real people and ask if anyone has heard of ________. Sad to say, the response isn't so favorable. We live in a digital bubble, we need to help companies and organizations. We need to point our focus on making a difference not another point on the Klout tote board.

It really has nothing to do with numbers and I often wonder what the social web would be like without all the stupid counters.

Let's get out of our thimble and join the rest of the humans.

Since I'm going to take an alternative view here I'm glad it's not Danny that wrote this post.

I think what you wrote here is a knee jerk reaction to the issue. So people stop linking to and talking to and talking about the folks now considered A-listers. Who do they then designate as the next person they follow, and then what happens if that person becomes the next A-lister, stop following them as well?

It sounds like ultimate hate for A-listers, and it reminds me of an interesting debate I've been having lately with someone else regarding the concepts of wealth and why some people are vilified just because they happened to have figured out how to be wealthy.

Frankly, I don't like this direction. At least have a good reason to hate someone that might be an A-lister. For what it's worth, the guy whose blog this was posted on is considered an A-lister by a lot of people (though Danny would want to defer from that); do we stop following Danny because someone has decided to put him on that pedestal?

It may seem strange that someone like me would take this position after writing the article that I'm linking to here through CommentLuv but the reasons are much different and the outcomes wished for are different as well. If people really hate A-listers just because someone called them that, then they're going to do everything they can do to avoid ever becoming an A-lister. If that's the case then you might as well stop writing your blog now if you have one because no one ever wants to become what they don't like. Luckily, in this case I have no such qualms.

You can't destroy the A-List, whoever they may be. Avoiding them and remaining focused on your own profile, relationships and goals is certainly good advice.
However, the self is defined in the reflection of others so it helps to have ready access to a group of popular influencers to rebel against :)

G'Day Geoff,
I've been writing for about 50 years. I never go to "Writers Weeks" or "Writers Festivals." It's not that I don't think that I could learn anything. I'm sure I could.

But I couldn't cope with all that overbearing intensity of writers and would-be writers discussing writing as if it talking about it would make you better at it. You learn to write by writing.

I'm a relative newbie in the so-called blogosphere. But I detect some of the same wheel spinning and navel gazing might, just might be evident here.

Being read by 1,000,000 people is an extraordinaily exciting prospect. But if none of them are in my target market, that's all it is.

"You like A-list and I like A-list" But, as the old song says, maybe it's time to "call the whole thing off"

Make sure you have fun

Regards

Leon

Geoff,
Some nice points here.
Just one quibble, particularly with someone pimping his writing: "eliteness"?

The actual English word is "elitism".

I haven't ever subscribed to the belief that there is an A-List. There are too many variables to and factors at play and I am not interested in building consensus on who is or isn't.

In many ways blogging is no different from our school days. Some bloggers are popular for reasons that are hard to fathom and or don't make sense. It is a waste of time to worry about it.

Power and influence in social media is derived from whether people respond to your call to action. The only thing I worry about is whether my community responds to my requests.

GEoff,

It's funny because I was thinking of writing a post on nearly the same subject. These days I rarely read the blogs of the so-called "a-list" because I find that it is really hard to develop relationships with them. I also love that new bloggers com to the table with fresh ideas and as a result I've embraced something Stan Smith at Pushing Social said "kiss lots of digital babies." Many of the a-list blogs these days are not even written by the person who started the blog, so the value has diminished in my opinion.

Tempted to not RT this, so I don't carry on the conversation Geoff. ;-) And I totally agree that if you don't like or whine about your community all the time, get out - and find a new one. Also will 2nd and 3rd all the comments about finding and defining our own "THIS is what matters to me, THESE are the people I like" lists. Word.

Now a nitpick: dismissing an otherwise helpful, quality post because it came from a so-called A lister... is it not the same as ignoring one just b/c from the likes of someone like myself? Ditto a tweet or RT. Don't misunderstand me, I have been giving the unfollow button a healthy workout of late and yet, plenty of folks who may not use MY style of engagement are still there, still get a look in the reader once in a while. I have some respect different, smart ideas that aren't always in sync with my own, keep an eye out for various points of view - keeps me honest. I'm not courting anyone's favor, I don't subscribe to the gospel according to anyone.. I just think if something has value to it, I'll use it in a link or RT and not let whatever 'list' someone's on take up so much of my time. FWIW.

Yes!!!

I follow those five tips when I don't think a person, whether he/she is an A-lister or not, deserves the publicity.

I do think that some A-listers can post whatever they want, and people will blindly push it to their social networking sites. Perfect example: Last week, I saw one post the exact post as another publication that had published it in January, and it had 1,000 tweets.

I want to shake some people and yell: "Wake up!" However, I know that I can only control my actions, and I tend to not pay them any mind.

Hey Geoff - most excellent post sir...

#5 sums it up perfectly; don't waste time, do meaningful things.

The popularity contest should have ended in high school, but seems to rage on social web.

From a professional (business, marketing, PR) standpoint - IMPACT and getting things done for your business, clients and/or the world we live should be the focus.

Moving people, moving the economy, providing solutions and doing things that benefit the community is what matters.

Numbers and popularity don't necessarily equate to being productive.

If your time is not accomplishing worthwhile things for your family, for others or your future - you should re-evaluate your the investment of time or strategy you invest online.

Cheers to thoughtful this post :)