A-Listers Behaving Badly
This is a guest post by Neicole Crepeau.
Last week I inadvertently stepped into a hornet’s nest on my blog. I publicized some SEO practices that I had been unaware of, including the fact that they may be taking place on a major blogger’s site (unknown to him, I assumed).
The response from that blogger seemed to me out of all proportion. He threatened me with a lawsuit, resulting in my taking down the original post.
His response to this perceived, but unintended, criticism struck me as such a contrast to the response I received from the Triberr guys to a blog post here on Danny’s blog. In that case, I actually did criticize a feature of their product.
Yet these two young men, Dino Dogan and Dan Cristo, were totally professional and courteous. They engaged in an open debate about their product and politely disagreed with me.
It seems to me that some of the supposedly seasoned A-listers could take a lesson from the young bloggers about how to handle criticism.
When I blogged in May about why I’m hesitant about Triberr, I criticized the product. Dino and Dan came on the blog to respond. Dan actually thanked me for the post. Dino engaged me with counter-arguments, and we had a reasonable debate on Danny’s blog.
It never got personal or nasty. This despite the fact that I had made a mistake in my discussion about Triberr, saying that it tweeted links more than once per user account. Dino just politely corrected me. He didn’t threaten to sue me for misrepresenting his product.
When I published my controversial post last week, I let the two people I mentioned know that I had blogged about them. It seemed like the right thing to do. Common courtesy, so they could respond. Plus, again, I assumed that this major blogger might want to know about these shady SEO practices that were surely affecting his blog.
Unfortunately, he was on the attack from the get-go. There was no courtesy, a lot of assumptions about my motivations, and very quickly threats.
Apparently, he has handled product criticism similarly. A year ago, on a negative review of his Scribe SEO product, his very first comment invoked the word “libel” and he proceeded to threaten a lawsuit. Contrast that with Dino and Dan, who have handled even negative Triberr reviews in a polite, professional way–and updated their product in response to it!
This blogger who bullied me online actually wrote a well-regarded post urging people to be courageous bloggers. He said “You need the courage to alienate the wrong people in order to resonate with the right people. You need to stick to your convictions when people tell you you’re wrong simply because your knowledge doesn’t mesh with their opinions.”
I’m taking his advice. That’s why I have republished my post, including the original comment thread and the tweets that followed. Because I better understand some of his concerns, and in order to protect some commenters from his potential bullying, I have removed people’s names.
This man is not alone. Other A-list personalities have become immediately defensive and intractable when their practices were questioned. I’m not the only one who feels that a lot of the biggest personalities are not open to honest questioning and criticism. They tell their clients to handle criticism gracefully, to not get defensive, to listen with an open mind and respond thoughtfully. Yet, they don’t practice the same techniques for their own brand.
These days, if you criticize an A-lister, you are apt to be labeled and dismissed as a “hater.” Disagreeing is not the same as hating. Criticism is not always mean-spirited. Democracy is built on the willingness of people to speak out, even when their opinion is unpopular, and for all of us to debate the issues openly. Shouldn’t our larger social media community be built on the same principles?
So, how about taking a step back, A-listers? I bet you’d like everyone to remember that you’re a real person. We’d like you to remember that we are, too. Don’t assume we little guys are out to get you. Don’t assume we’re criticizing you just to get attention and link-bait. We’re not all that jaded and cheap. I know you get a lot of crap at your level and it’s probably hard to assume the best of people. But please try.
Take a lesson from the young dogs. Assume the best of us, participate in discussions, politely disagree, and please don’t use your size and status to stifle any discussion.
About the Author: Neicole Crepeau is a blogger, columnist at {grow}, and the creator of CurateXpress, a content curation tool. She works at Coherent Interactive on social media, website design, mobile apps, & marketing. Connect with Neicole on Twitter at @neicolec.
I really love the post. Thank you posting this one.
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I was frustrated half way through the post for not knowing who was the A-lister. Good thing it was clear later, lol
I had my share of threats but I really don't care. It seems like some people are allowed to write and say anything because they are big and some aren't!
Well guess what, I am pretty big in my own eyes and the eyes of my family and that is the only thing that matters, so no one will stop me from saying out loud what is on my mind.
Those people that think of themselves like the untouchable are only big in the eyes of those thousands of people visiting their site. There are 7 bil people on Earth, so what percentage is that!!??
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Gotta love how the web keeps you on your toes! Especially when you're on the pulpit preaching to the choir!
One of my favorite lessons I learned from John Wooden, the hall of fame UCLA basketball coach was, "When someone see's you after a game, they shouldn't be able to tell whether you've won or lost."
He taught his players how be graceful under fire and that led to their winning 11 championships under his leadership. Can't help but think how this lesson transfers to everything you do in life. And one of the ways to not come across as graceful is to let yourself speak solely from an attacked position in the heat of the moment. This be a REALLY easy place to say something you didn't want to.
It seems like the Triberr guys get this and I'm glad your here bringing consciousness to such an important topic Neicole!
Lewis LaLanne aka Nerd #2 Thanks!
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First off thanks for the shout out! You got me a new reader who pointed out the link as I hadn't come across your site before or the guest posers! I am starting to feel very old I started in this game in 2007 and even then it was very controversial to call out the a-listers -I thought things might have moved on - but apparently not - same people, same delicate egos and same threats!
You get used to being called negative in this game - if you don't buy every product and fawn over every self-proclaimed profit of IM - there is nothing new under the sun, keywords and backlinks still work - and some well-known American bloggers scream "sue" at the first mention of debate LOL
Whoa?! He really did that. The whole point of having an online brand means that it's very much open to criticism and dissection. He probably has anxiety issues or something, probably wise to stop and reflect before he reacts to anything concerning his brand.
Sydney @ Social Dynamics Gonna stick my nose in. Before you go around saying someone has anxiety issues, you could take a bit of your own advice and stop and reflect. In this case, you're not acting any differently (reactionary) than the people in question. Simply my two cents, but then again, I'm a loudmouth. Holler!
Sydney @ Social Dynamics Hi Sydney,
In defence of Brian, he did take a step back and then re-entered the conversation to apologize to Neicole about the way he handled things. I think that says a lot about him, and probably shows less anxiety and more measured thinking. Which is never a bad thing.
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212 - 13 :) comments says everything about this blog and the community that thrives on the content Danny Sir.
This reminds me of a blog started by an A-lister last year that I really enjoyed reading. The premise of the blog was that it was a place to discuss ideas for businesses. To be honest, the comments section was full of "good job. you're a genius!" type comments. Mine were not. I regularly (and politely) disagreed and tried to have discussion. Unfortunately, I was labeled as critical, negative, and asked why I bothered commenting on the blog at all when I never had anything positive to say, and that maybe "one day I could find something positive to say for once." It's not just the bloggers, really. It's their communities as well. The people will rally behind them like a wall of sheeple to shut out the possibility of conflict, and it makes me sad.
I try not to be a hypocrite. I try to take criticism as best I can. Do I get defensive? Yes. I'm a defensive person. But I would never chase someone away from a discussion or encourage others to do the same. i would never target someone and degrade their character because they don't agree with my ideas. And that's the issue. There are people that will tear you down for even suggesting change or alternatives.
The next generation is coming, though. It's up to the newcomers to do what they have always done --> change things. Hopefully for the better.
coreyfreeman Great point, Corey. I've experienced similar problems, as have few folks on here, when commenting on other blogs. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the blogger.
Yes, the commenters need to show respect to the blogger and each other, but if the blogger doesn't set their stall out when it comes to what will and won't be accepted, then why should the reader care?
Cheers, miss!
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Neicolec,
Hi. My internet connection was on strike when all this was going down, so here I come with cool and new / naive blood. You, as you have been told over and over again here, but it means enough to be said that many more times... You handled yourself with grace, dignity, and eloquence. You stood up to the bad - which IS scary and troubling.
I caught the scent from a tweet during one of the 5 minute interludes that I actually had a connection out here in the mountains and went and read you - for the first time ever. First, to you, about you...whoa. You fit right in with all my smarty-friends. But the other thing is like most of them, I could understand what you were talking about and I'm about as far away from "this" niche as a human can get. I understood it- first reading. So thank you for some great cautions and great information.
Second, What A Jerk. I can say that cause it is my opinion. There are so many of them out there though. The difference is, there are many, many, many more out there like @DannyBrown, @Ginidietrich, @AriHerzog, @Soulati, @ericamallison ..... and on and on. I am glad I had the opportunity to see you, and go back and read you. Thank you for being one of the classy ones.~Amber-Lee
girlygrizzly@ericamallison Thank you! It really is reassuring to hear that others think I've handled this well. It matters to me. And you are right. The really bright spot is that there are so many smart, kind, amazing people in our social media world. It's hard to explain to people who aren't in these online communities just how much these connections mean. In many ways, I find it easier to connect with people online than off, as I tend to be rather introverted. I just feel lucky to have stumbled into these communities, and been embraced. In fact, I've made so many new connections from this whole episode, that it well turn out to have been worth the pain. Nice to make your acquaintance, Amber-Lee!
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I commented on the original post, for those who want to know, I am Person 'B'. I still stand by what I said originally - the 'points' you made Neicole made good reading. However, I didn't find the naming/shaming palatable at all. Furthermore, it read, to me, like you were using 'big' names to pull in readership (drive traffic) and create controversy (which you have). If this was your ultimate goal, you have succeeded. Your article read like you were 'baiting'
I am unsure why you did not speak to the people you named, first, before the article was published, and ask if what you had been told/found out was true. Is there no innocent until proven guilty here online? I think it is dangerous to vent at people you have singled out (I am sure you could have used other examples of people but chose not to?)
You say you told these people you had mentioned them in your blog, I saw it on Twitter, this is how I came to read the post, but was it really necessary? This is why we monitor ourselves for mentions!
It was the public tweeting inviting comments from the people you named/shamed that sucked for me and this is why your article did not have the impact it would have had, if you had written it without wagging an accusatory finger.
One person reacted quite strongly, mentioning libel, the other refused to be 'drawn in' by your 'tactics'. If you have something to 'uncover' do it in an investigative way, don't just take what people say and tell you as being 'gospel' until you check it out from both sides.
I think its a shame that the valuable points you tried to make were blurred by the very way in which you raised them.
LesleyAveyard I understand what you're saying. I can offer some explanations. Whether you believe them or not, I can't control.
First, I don't have a huge audience and didn't expect the post to have much of an impact. I could have made my point without naming names and I would have been ok with that. But I knew some people had been called out recently for NOT naming names when being critical, so I thought I should include the social media person's name. As for Copyblogger, I just didn't think it was an issue naming him, because I wasn't saying he had done anything wrong.
I was just relating an incident that happened, my surprise at seeing such a large, well-known blog, and my opinion that this practice probably isn't good for the quality of content on targeted blogs. If he happened to see the post, and didn't know about this practice as I hadn't, then it might be helpful for him to know that his blog was on these lists. It didn't make any sense to contact him beforehand. First of all, why would he care what my little blog says? Second, there was nothing for him to say about what was true or not true. I knew what was true, that I had seen his blog on this list. And that's all I was stating.
As for the tweet to them. I hadn't really planned that. But I thought, geez, I'm talking about this social media a-lister. The right thing to do is let him know and maybe he has an explanation. Which he did, actually. I just included Copyblogger because I had mentioned him, and it was a way to pass on the information to him, which he might want to know. I realize now, though, that my tweet came across as somehow taunting them, which I did not intend. Again, I think the post title also really set a bad tone.
I really did not set out to do an investigative piece. It probably would have been better if I had, because I would have researched copyblogger and the seo issues more and I would have known that this could be a touchy area. Instead, I naively walked into this mess. Another learning. But, please do re-read the post. I think you'll see that I didn't take what someone told me as gospel. This was stuff I just stumbled upon and then documented.
Hope that helps clarify things. I understand your irritation at the idea that I might have been link-baiting and/or was being unfair to people.
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NeicolecLesleyAveyard Neicole, the humility you consider to show in these comments is so inspiring, as you answer your critics again and again with grace. I hope I'll be able to be bear up under this kind of pressure and criticism should I ever be in your position. I hope this will go away soon, but in the meantime, what an incredible treasure trove of case studies about so many things surrounding social media and the internet in general, not to mention just plain ol' relationship skills. People will be linking to this discussion for a long time, I'm sure.
NEMultimediaLesleyAveyard Thanks, Michelle. I must admit, I'm ready to be done, now, though. Talk about a disruption!
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Neicolec Thanks Neicole :) Appreciate you taking the time to answer me and thankyou for clarity
G'Day Neicole,
Wow! That Danny Brown is a bloody stirrer. In fact he's an A-list stirrer. Y'know Neicole, I'm an old bugger who's been writing, even published, for a long, long time. But I've been blogging for only a year or so and moved my offline business to online only three years ago.
Without putting too fine a point on it, I'm astonished at just how precious lots of bloggers and blog commenters are. And I'm astounded at how naive they are too. Seems to me some people think they can say what they like and no one will get their nose out of joint 'cause we're all part of the Great Internet Community. If we tread on some toes, kick a few shins or even stab a few backs, it's in the best interests of the GIC. And believe me Neicole, I'm not the slightest bit averse to shin kicking and toe trampling.
The "who's right and who's wrong" in this case really doesn't matter. It hurts. But it really doesn't matter. What matters is that everyone seems to have lost sight of the fact that writing is about the reader not the writer Understanding that is really most important for anyone with pretensions to writing.
But I have a complaint.
How come Jayme attracted a comment from The Redhead herself. But Danny Brown, a great fan, hasn't even attracted even a mild swearword. C'mon Danny. We Celts can do better.
Make sure you have fun
Regards
Leon
Leon I did once get a hug from erika napoletano in New York, if that counts? Don't recall her swearing though. so maybe not. :)
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DannyBrownLeonerika napoletano It's true. I hugged Danny. I almost left lipstick on his shirt collar, too. And to answer you question, Leon (and you know I completely adore you), I caught wind of the original post via Google cache and Jayme's follow-up post via the Twitters. So, to make everyone happy here: damn you, Danny Brown! DAMN YOU!!!!!!!!!! :-)
RedheadWritingLeon Well I don't know about Leon, but I'm smiling. And I KNEW I should have worn my 70's collar shirt...
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DannyBrownRedheadWritingLeon I am SO jealous!!
Leon Absolutely agree with you that the focus should be on the reader. I'm actually not one that writes primarily for myself...and glad the Redhead was able to oblige you!
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I'm no A-lister ... actually I'm so far from it, I run out of alphabet. This social media thang is chock full of braggadouches, pinheads, elitists and, like the squirrels in my garden, I may not like them and they even make me a little nervous (furtive little tree rats they are - erm... the squirrels that is) so I stay out of their way or shrug and move on. With all due respect I feel most of them are - actually - legends in their own minds. Sometimes, I like to watch the Twitter stream, snack in hand, and see the Kubrick-esque drama unfold (complete with monkeys and monoliths ...)
I've learned much from some of you smart folks here in SoMeland ~ but typically from the people who are out there, in the real world, making a difference. I'm cool with debate, discourse, and even delicate dispute but didactic diatribe? no thanks. My difference of opinion doesn't make me or the other person wrong ... and, if I'm bullied, I won't back down but simply unfriend or unfollow or shop elsewhere ... and invite the other person to do the same. It should never be personal (if I do think someone is an ass ~ I'll keep that opinion to myself. After all, we're all grownups here, right? ... ) If I've made a mistake, have misquoted or misunderstood someone and I'm actually wrong - I'm the first to admit it and apologize. Here you've expressed intelligent and considered opinion. No apology required.
Well done ~ respect, Neicolec
TobeyDeys Okay, there should be a double-like option for use of the term "braggadouches", Tobey - simply awesome! :)
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TobeyDeys Thank you! I'm just glad things ended on a better note, myself...
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TobeyDeysNeicolec Oh My!! I REALLY like this chick! @TobeyDeys, we have yet to meet, but you made me laugh out loud!! (I just don't think ...Stuff is funny) I can whole-heart-edly say "What she said" and leave it at that! ~Amber-Lee
Neicolec : All I have to say is "Good for you, girl". Being bullied online by people you respect is both disappointing and a little scary. But putting it out there again takes real guts - you're to be commended. Like so many others here, I think its fine that we remain critical - it helps us grow, so long as it doesn't get personal. When as ginidietrich points out, she has a blow-out a couple of weeks ago on a blog post, she was confronted with similar problems, and she too stood tall and by her original post.
I didn't comment then as I am now, because its really a pretty disturbing trend. Leaders (if that's how these people view themselves) support the endeavors of others even when it doesn't benefit them to do so. Leaders don't pick on others and they certainly don't attack others. That kind of behavior suggests a deep insecurity that no amount of "comment love" can help.
I think what happens to lots of successful people in general (not just bloggers and social media-ites) is that they get so used to people nodding their heads in agreement and slapping their backs with congratulations that they FORGET that constructive criticism can help them be even better. When your just starting out, you have to accept criticism constructively, as we progress in our careers, I think we often lose that skill set.
On the other hand, we as bloggers (and opinionated people) have to understand that when we take a stand others are going to disagree-and may do so aggressively. We should be prepared for it. We should hone our own spines (as you have done here) to stand tall. I've been called out before too - though not with the same aggressiveness - and been caught off guard. But its a learning lesson and one we can take with us to our next posts.
Nice follow-up and thanks for staying true to yourself and your post.
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taracoomansNeicolecginidietrich It's funny - MSchechter and I were talking about this very thing by email today.
When you just acknowledge the positive comments and ignore the questioning or debating ones, then you're in danger of believing your own hype. Something a few folks not too far from this discussion have done, or seem to be doing.
Maybe they should look at how Brian showed up and offered the olive branch, and learn how to respect opinions of others without feeling the need to cry to their faithful sheep... ;-)
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DannyBrowntaracoomans It's very true, but I still think Tara says it best. If we put our head out there, it's possible someone is going to try and chop it off.
And like I said to you in our email, the only thing we every truly control in these situations is ourselves.
MSchechterDannyBrowntaracoomans Well said, good sir....
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taracoomansginidietrich I will admit, it was scary! And I had to try to step back and get some good advice to figure out how to handle things. So grateful for the people in my life!
I expect that being an A-Lister introduces a whole host of challenges that I can't imagine from my location lower down the ranks. Losing perspective is probably one of them. I think you make a good point that we have to accept it starting out, and begin to get more yes-men the further up we go. But also probably a lot harsher critics--and that can't be easy to take. So, I'm willing to cut people slack. Just hope they will do the same. Brian just demonstrated what a quality A-Lister can do. Public apologies are not easy. I have a lot of respect for him for that.
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I don't know what an "A-lister" is so I can't comment on that.
I do recognize the benefit of critique and negativity; namely, if you're doing a good job, you're going to get critiqued. Deal with it or stop doing whatever you do. I'm an elected city councilor and I am critiqued every week; sometimes it's something said to my face, and other times it's something I read about or hear about from others. Life goes on.
Neicolec perhaps you can help me understand the crux of this lawsuit and why you removed your content, because that part I don't understand.
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Ari Herzog Hi, Ari. If go to the link in the above post, it shows the original blog post and all the comments and tweets resulting. (Though, names have been removed.) It was the veiled threat of the lawsuit from Major Blogger and his demand for a retraction that caused me to take it down.
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Ari HerzogNeicolec I question sometimes what you call critique, Ari. An element of civility helps these kinds of conversations.
First of all, I really commend you for this blog post and for republishing your original blog post. It's crazy to think that an opinion can be labeled libel. As one of your commenters said, I really thought your original post was more investigative than critical. And as I said to you privately, if these SEO black hat guys had Spin Sucks on a list like that, I'd certainly want to know!
I think your last few paragraphs are the lesson here: We're not all trying to get attention or drive link bait. Sometimes we just see something we don't agree with (hello paying for a G+ webinar, anyone) and we blog about it. It's the freedom of speech and opinion of the blogosphere.
We have to remember that not everyone is going to like us. It sucks, but it's reality. And how you handle the criticism is how you're remembered. It's hard to be gracious, especially when your feelings are hurt, but it's imperative. After all, to your point, if we tell our clients to be gracious and then don't lead by example, where does that leave us?
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ginidietrich Haters gonna hate, critics gonna crit. ;-)
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ginidietrich I never did understand all the kerfuffle (love that word) surrounding your G+ post. I thought you handled that with grace, just as Neicolec did here. I actually wrote a whole lot more about that incident but decided not to include it, as that horse has clearly been beaten to death already. Just wanted to say that to your point of handling criticism graciously, you certainly have led by example as far as I have seen.
CarlThress Thanks Carl. It was pretty painful, but I stand by my opinion. I have an open mind and am willing to admit when I'm wrong, but this one I really believe does the entire industry a disservice. But clearly not everyone agrees. :)
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ginidietrich You have a lot of supporters, too. To borrow a phrase I read somewhere, spin sucks... no matter who's doing the spinning and how far they are above reproach.
ginidietrich yeah, yeah linkbaiter :)
P.S. I like you, so that should count for absolutely nothing!
MSchechter WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?!?!
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ginidietrichMSchechter Never mind that, Dietrich - enable Livefyre LinkBack on your blog, or feel the wrath... ;-)
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I snuck up to the Canada. Am back now :)
ginidietrich Plus I have you to blame on my sudden drop in blog reading... took you up on reading the Hunger Games.... sooooooo good. I forgot what fiction feels like.
DannyBrownginidietrichMSchechter 1. Is that live? and 2. Who's a guy gotta know to get thing rollin? Halp!
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MSchechter lmao ... I hear 'the France' is lovely this time of year ;-)
MSchechter Dude, it's "snuck up to Canada, eh". Get it right, man, for the love of all things Steamwhistle.
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